Through the miasma across music’s most ruthless frontiers, Sunn O))) have moved like no other. The duo of Greg Anderson and Stephen O’Malley, pulling from various parts of a sound world that has become borderless. The inclusion of many guests and collaborations throughout their 28-year reign – from Mayhem’s Attila Csihar and Oren Ambarchi to Boris, Ulver, Scott Walker and many more – it’s these ceasesless curiosities that have solidified Sunn O)))’s position as the overlords of amplifier worship.
In many ways, the last decade has been the band’s most prosperous. The Steve Albini-recorded Life Metal and Pyroclasts (both 2018), a meditative force, which gloriously culminated with Metta, Benevolence BBC 6 Music: Live on the Invitation of Mary Ann Hobbs (2021) featuring Anna von Hausswolff.
This manifestation of Sunn O))), which also featured multi-instrumentalists T.O.S. Nieuwenhuizen and Anthony Pateras, Silkworm and Bottomless Pitt’s Tim Midyett and Icelandic composer, Hildur Guðnadóttir, were unshackled to new spiritual forces. And on Sunn O))), Anderson and O’Malley submit to the greatest force of all: the environment. Their yielding to nature, unveiling new visceral layers.
Their debut full-length for Sub Pop following last year’s Eternity’s Pillars b/w Raise the Chalice & Reverential EP, which was recorded in the same sessions, Anderson and O’Malley strip it back. Recorded with Brad Wood who joins the likes of Albini and Randall Dunn in O))) folklore, on Sunn O))), once again Anderson and O’Malley reinvent themselves. The sweat from the humidity of Life Metal and Pyroclasts, dripping into these compositions. A seismic power, containing the kind of tonal swerves and hypnotic liberation that embodies the Sunn O))) experience.
The duo’s endeavours away from Sunn O))) have taken them down vastly different paths over the years. But on Sunn O))), their singular voices shine through as clear as ever. The brutish XXANN, finding O’Malley’s meticulous sound sculptures entwine with Anderson’s metallic heft. At times, it almost sound like a protracted Goatsnake jam.
It’s the first of many contrasts on Sunn O))). Each piece, mirage-like, revealing new elements every time. The quiet / loud dynamics of Does Anyone Hear Like Venom? The avalanche of sound that is Butch’s Guns to the ephemeral Mindrolling and triumphant Glory Black. The latter, an epic curtain call that confirms Sunn O))) as one of the band’s most defining moments committed to tape.
While the past has found the duo leaning heavier into black metal (2005’s Black One and the era-defining follow-up, Monoliths and Dimensions), Sunn O))) pulls from those same places. The vastness of the environment, absorbing the sound where the two form as one. It embodies Sunn O)))’s spiritual resonance. A place where they’ve always meant to be and perhaps at their most metal of all. Sunn O))) is a celebration of sound, and how metal culture has changed due to Sunn O)))’s participation in it. Always shifting. Always evolving.
At the end of May, I had the privilege of speaking to O’Malley via Zoom. The guitarist is in Portugal for the annual Serralves festival in Porto. “It’s a park that was built around Art Nouveau Mansion in the early 20th century,” he explains. “Some industrialists bought all this land and made this amazing house in this park, but nowadays there’s a contemporary art museum also on that park.”
The weekend involves a focus on O’Malley’s music. “There’s these pieces I made for this Alphorn ensemble from Switzerland,” he says, referring to four one-hour long compositions that would be played during the festival at dawn and dusk.
Having been up working since 4am, O’Malley isn’t showing any signs of fatigue. “I’m talking about a lot, because I had a lot of coffee today,” he laughs, as we discuss Sunn O)))’s journey and his creative process, including his solo material, his label, Ideologic Organ, and more.
Sunn O))) (photo Charles Peterson)Sun 13: What was the first album that changed your life and steered you towards making the music you have?
Stephen O’Malley: “I grew up around music. My dad was and is a big music fan. He’s always checking the new stuff out, and is a fan of KEXP and stuff like that. At home there was always music and records that he was buying. But for me, when did I have my independent music taste? A friend and I, when we were kids, his brother was a skater. There are two things: he had DBC by Dead Brain Cells, and he had Ride the Lightning. But this other friend of mine, his older brother was super into Iron Maiden. That was really early as well. I didn’t own those albums at that time, but I think those collisions of metal at age 8-10 were pretty important.
“I found my own path really after Slayer, and discovering death metal, and the band, Death. It’s hard to put it down to one record… things happen really quickly, but it wasn’t an underground record. And then finding the underground scene, mail ordering and smaller labels, it was a slippery slope after getting into Slayer and then discovering death metal. I was obsessed. I found something super interesting, pretty artistic, and also on my own from where I was growing up.”
S13: Did the Shoshin Duo tour in 2024 inspire you to return to recording as a two-piece?
SOM: “Maybe in a way. That tour was after the pandemic, and really from when we put the band on hold. We didn’t even see each other for two years. When we got back together to play shows, we were being pretty cautious. We knew we could play some duo concerts, so we decided to start out that way, rather than put our friends at risk, because it was still sketchy. Speaking personally, some friends… their bands had tours cancelled because people got COVID on tour. It was a disaster. Some bands broke up… they couldn’t go through it financially.
“I wanted to be more careful and mitigate that risk, because we toured almost right up until the lockdown. We had just been in Northern Italy, and then we ended in France, and a couple people in our group at the time on the Life Metal tour were very sick. That might have been COVID, we don’t know, as there was no testing at that time.
“One thing led to another, one show turned into a couple of shows, and then a tour idea. I don’t think we really made a choice to not invite other people… we were just enjoying what we were finding playing as a duo, and we were using the Shoshin name, which had a little bit of a different meaning in the past.
“This time we were writing music on sound checks, and it just got a life of its own. It’s got its creative energy, and we’ve continued with that. So, in that sense, I think it did come out of that opportunity to play together again, just in a basic way with the two of us. By the time the momentum and inertia was moving pretty well, a few years later it just seemed like we should record some of these ideas. It was pretty easy to do all the instrumentation ourselves and build.”
S13: Looking back at Life Metal, Pyroclasts and Metta, Benevolence… there’s just as much sonic weight with just the two of you. What was the most important aspect you wanted to achieve with Sunn O)))?
SOM: “I think setting up the situation of where to spend time, which place to spend it, and what to do with that time. In this case, record and use some ideas we had been developing. But also more time to be creative in that space and who to work with and how to present this to the world. All of that arrangement set up almost nests the music itself and sets up a situation where it can be really fluid and real. At least that’s my point of view with it.
“So as far as what an ambition is, we were able to develop a very cohesive structure to even record at all. It was quite a developed scenario to walk into and actually play guitar and record it. I think putting that together, all of that build up included the writing and playing those shows, certainly the exchange of ideals, musical and otherwise, that was the ambition.”
“What would actually happen musically happened in a way because of the surrounding circumstances and modelling. Looking back, I think it was a really positive experience. We were working and collaborating with a lot of new people. From a new label, new engineer artists, writers, photographers. So it’s quite a lot of collaboration from a production standpoint.”
Sunn O))) (photo: Charles Peterson)S13: This record breathes so differently than previous Sunn O))) releases. Was Brad Wood someone that you had earmarked to record with?
SOM: ”We mixed in Brad’s studio in Southern California. We actually recorded the record up Washington State. But the studio we decided to work in, Brad was completely involved in that decision, along with Greg, our manager, and the label too, somewhat. It was our call of course, but we were deferring to Brad for technical means, because he had a really specific concept on how he wanted to capture our music, and there needed to be a certain capability in the studio we chose for him to be able to execute that concept. Greg had worked with Brad on several projects and also some other material that Greg has produced for Southern Lord.”
S13: The Lord’s material and his excellent record with Petra Haden, Devotional…
SOM: “Yeah. Working together at beginning of the pandemic as well. They lived pretty close to each other, relatively for Southern California, so they were able to get together and work in Brad’s studio while things were shut down elsewhere.
“Brad was pretty verbal about his appreciation of the records we made with Albini. He was also a colleague of Albini, being from Chicago as well. He was expressing to Greg that he had ideas for years, and Greg would share that with me from time to time. Brad’s a very established producer. He’s done a lot of significant work, and it’s got a pretty interesting history, but I had never met him or worked with him. We ended up doing a demo one time I was in L.A. We spent an afternoon where he tracked it in this little room he had in the studio live room. It was awesome, and then we just decided to work together.
“We were talking about how it’d be great to work in a residential studio… like Electrical Audio, which means you have apartments or a house at the studio. You live there while you’re working, so you can focus and find it to be really cohesive in a different way. There’s a bit more commitment. We did that when we were recording Life Metal and Pyroclasts for two-and-a-half weeks. It meant you could have breakfast together and get a coffee and then walk downstairs and go in the studio and turn everything on and be recording 10 minutes later. It’s really cool… and not have to be in there all day, too. You could come back at night when there’s another idea.”
S13: Right…
SOM: “But this time we were talking about how it would be great if we could also go hiking around the studio as part of that. And that became the criteria, for sure. We’re very fortunate to have arrived at a point where a band making music the way Sunn O)))’s music is, where we have the resources to make decisions like that. It’s incredible, and that alone sums up a lot of this. It was about a celebration of that.”
“We decided on Bear Creek Studio and spent a few weeks hiking in the morning or in the afternoon and working in this great studio with that kind of environmental experience happening at the same time. I was reading a lot about AC/DC recently, who worked in the Bahamas a lot. I didn’t really know that.”
S13: Neither did I!
SOM: (Laughs) “They would record in the Bahamas like the way I’ve described a little bit. They would all go down there in some studios, and they would live down in the Bahamas, and then record some of the great records. Back in Black and Flick the Switch. I didn’t know that either, but when you think about it, that must have been fucking awesome. (laughs) No wonder those records are so good. Your mood is so heightened, and it’s like being a musician. There’s a sensitivity to doing it where you can’t just paint by numbers and have it as that extra thing.”
Sunn O))) - Sunn O)))S13: It’s obvious that the environment is central to these recordings. The forest has always had ties with Norwegian black metal and a lot of that early imagery. There’s also your reference to Venom on the album. Both aspects got me thinking… is this Sunn O)))’s quintessential metal album?
SOM: (Laughs) “Actually, someone told me about the Mark Rothko paintings, and photos of the sleeve. I was talking to a visual artist friend of mine recently, and I told them about those paintings, and about the sleeve of the Sunn O))) album, and they said, ‘That’s the most black metal artist of all time!’ It’s a very different take on that artist I had before, but since you’re talking about black metal, that wasn’t the intention of the Mark Rothkos. But it’s like you can see what you want when you look at the forest, you know? You could see it as a forbidding mystical night place, or you can see it as a breadbasket. (laughs)
“With me, Norwegian black metal kind of spoiled it for people, because Norway is very empty. There are forests everywhere, and it’s quite rural as well. Some of those musicians lived in the sticks, so hiking in the forest was not unusual. It wasn’t as unusual as it would be for someone from Chicago or something like that.” (laughs)
S13: How much do you think your solo work has informed the later era of Sunn O)))?
SOM: “Well, I mean it’s me via my solo work, so there’s going to be parallels there. I don’t delineate things in the way of compartmentalising musical ideas. Really, what happens with Sunn O))), the process, in my experience, is very different. Although tonally in some structures there might be similarities, and that’s because part of Sunn O))) is me playing the electric guitar, and a lot of my solo work is electric guitar, so there’s going to be flavours and characters there. But I work with different concepts and compositional approaches.
“Sunn O))) has its own system, and it’s open and changes. But what I’m doing with my solo stuff, I’m not trying to replicate that system. I’m trying to explore other things that might not work in that system or be interesting to my main writing partner. Actually, that’s probably what it comes down to the most. Most of my other projects are just other avenues I’m very curious of exploring or feel creative in, and I don’t want to be limited. I want to try and go in the other direction.”
S13: And what about your label, Ideologic Organ?
SOM: “The curation of the label is a such a pleasure. Creating the sleeves and aesthetics and also just using the resources I’ve grown and been awarded and been fortunate enough to build up over the years. To be able to champion some artists who might not have those resources or might gain a little bit from my work and association through the label. I think it’s just a great project that I also love.
“Like a lot of people running labels, not all of them, but most of them probably love turning people on to other new things. That’s a rewarding thing, and there are certainly artists that I’ve been really blessed to work with on Ideologic, or at some point, have really inspired me to even inform my own approach. It’s not as cut and dried as you have these ingredients and put them over here and then put them there. But’s it’s a life. I’m not organised or strict enough to keep things restricted to their own drawers and things like that.”
S13: Speaking of labels, in many ways it felt inevitable that you would end up on Sub Pop. Had you been in contact for a long time prior to signing with them?
SOM: “It’s really cool we get to work together, and almost I think it’s a bit amusing, too. 30 years later we’re putting a record out on Sub Pop! (laughs) The people there are awesome; they’re friends, you know? They’re very excited working together as well. Southern Lord has been doing all the releases since 2006 or 2007. It’s been a very lengthy DIY system, so step out of that, it’s been a big change. But a positive one.
“I’ve known people who have worked there over the years, especially when I was younger. I didn’t know Jonathan [Poneman] until we did the 7-inch, and I’ve met Jeff Klein Smith… he’s the guy who designed all of those classic records for the label. A lot of posters… I’m a designer as well, and have been for a long time, so I get to work with him. It’s really enjoyable.”
Sunn O))) (photo: Charles Peterson)S13: Going back to what you were saying 30 years ago, when you first started Sunn O))) did you envisage the band lasting as long as it has?
SOM: “I wouldn’t have said it’s not going to last 30 years. I was 23, and when you start thinking on those scales… I don’t even think my dad was my age at that time. (laughs) It’s kind of hard to imagine 30 days later! I did love music, but I didn’t even know I would be a musician, really. I never even thought about that. I’m pretty grateful for all of that.”
S13: Do you ever wonder what you may have been if you weren’t a musician now? Would you still be a designer?
SOM: “I often think about it. Less as I get older, though. But the acceptance and the refuting of the imposter syndrome gets a little bit better. I was a designer for many years, and had a career as an art and creative director in advertising for many years in New York. I ended up leaving, like that step everyone talks about. Leave your job and just be in this issue, and that risk.”
S13: The creative struggle…
SOM: “It always has been. It’s inherently unstable economically, and we’re in a culture where every message disavows for that production and generating assets and consumption. So that instability doesn’t really drive with that upward so-called growth that everyone’s supposed to be doing all the time.
“A friend of mine, Pete Brötzmann, passed away a few years ago. We were hanging out once, and I remember asking him about his early days, because he left a design job, actually – he was a typographer when he was younger. He continued to design and be an artist visually and a typographer within his work, too. I asked him, ‘Were you political? What were the politics?’ And he said, ‘Being a musician is being political. Just deciding to do that lifestyle is a political act’. I’ve always thought about that. It sounds a bit dramatic, only from the sense that we shouldn’t question the structure of what the commercial world is expecting us to participate in.”
S13: Do you look back on any of your past recordings in Sunn O))) and have fonder memories of certain releases than others? Or are you somebody who likes to look forward?
SOM: “Good question. I’ve met and worked with people who have proudly declared that they’ve never listened to their releases after they walk out of the studio. Then there are other people who obsess about their recordings. I don’t really listen to my records very much, but I am proud of them. They’re my work, it’s the body of my art work, every single one.
“Maybe some of them, especially the more experimental stuff I was doing in my ’30s, I can look back and think, ‘The world wouldn’t have missed anything much if this wasn’t released’. (laughs) But at the same time, I had the opportunity and made something and did it, so it’s part of the story. There are some incredible highlights that just blow my mind, obviously – especially the collaborations I’ve been involved with. It’s humbling sometimes, because it’s still a struggle. Although it’s been a success, it’s still so much work.”
S13: Feeding into that work ethic, you’re pretty constant on social media, too. Does that feel like an extra component and a new part of the process these days… to remain in the public eye?
SOM: “I wish I didn’t use my phone so much. (laughs) There is always something that seems more important that I should be doing. But the communication is important with Sunn O))). We really started when the underground went online in the late ’90s, early ’00s. A lot of my work, too, benefited from things like message boards, websites, downloads, and then social media of different types. Even that was community building in a similar way.
“I wish I had someone to do more of that for me, and Sunn O))) certainly does, too. Working with Sub Pop is eye opening with that stuff; they have whole departments! It reminds me of the early 2000s working in advertising. It’s sophisticated and pretty interesting, but being an artist working with that never really feels right to me. But at the same time, it’s a thrill to make an announcement of a tour or a record and have people get excited. The music is bringing something positive to people. It’s very evident in the concerts, for sure. And the response to the record, it’s there, too. There’s some positive value in this stuff.”
Sunn O))) is out now via Sub Pop. Purchase from Bandcamp.
Sunn O))) will perform at Liverpool’s The Dome At Grand Central Hall on June 30 (presented by HSP and The Good Times). Purchase tickets here.
