Witching Waves Interview: “It was a decision on our part to push ourselves to be more honest”

Bands with growing discographies are becoming far less common these days. Getting older and the lack of money in the arts both being contributing factors to this, however for the devoted few who continuously chip away and release new music in a time where people are still emerging from a COVID haze and tech overshadows just about everything, well, it seems nothing short of a miracle. Not only is it refreshing, but it reiterates that DIY culture remains vital.

Bands like Witching Waves. Over the past decade, the London band, spearheaded by drummer/vocalist Emma Wigham and guitarist/ vocalist Mark Jasper, have been constants threads in the U.K. DIY patchwork, delivering the kind of timeless alt-rock that everyone needs in their lives.

Over their four-album reign, which began with Fear of Falling Down (2015) and the game-changing Crystal Café (2016), Witching Waves enmeshed post-punk precision with the purity of indie-rock. There’s a K Records-worship where juxtaposing the tender with hostility is rife, and Witching Waves do it better than most these days.

The raucous Persistence followed in 2019, and then, of course, the world changed. And so did life for Wigham and Jasper, firstly by upping sticks to Yorkshire from their native London, and then also welcoming their first child, Ivy, into the world. With the transition from city to rural life, coupled with the COVID pandemic, it perhaps proved too much, which led to the pair moving back down south.

From the outside it seems like turbulence personified, however whichever way you look at it, through this sequence of events the pair managed to write and record what would become Witching Waves’ excellent new album, Streams and Waterways.

In many ways, Streams and Waterways feels like a new chapter for the band. The first release to feature local Liverpool DIY stalwart, Will Fitzpatrick (Good Grief) who replaces Estella Adeyeri (Big Joanie) on bass, the fact that the band is separated by the north/south battlelines embodies Witching Waves’ DIY spirit. Streams and Waterways, whilst lyrically delicate at times, also feels like a celebration of an ethos that will live on long after we’re all gone.

It starts with The Valley. An electric surge sprinkled with sythns and clever grooves that opens up a wonderful pathway for the rest of these songs. The rollicking Everytime follows and is staple Witching Waves, while the anthemic one-two assault of The Choice You Make and Vessel are like sharp incisions injecting something vital into the bloodstream.

Then there’s Open A Hole. A beautiful acoustic number more designed for campfires than live music venues, but somehow Witching Waves not only make it work, it’s one of Streams and Waterways’ apex moments. For those who have been with Witching Waves since day one, it’s the kind of moment that symbolises why we fall in love with bands in the first place. That growth from playing to two people to 200 people. Streams and Waterways feels like that. A quick glance in the rear-vision mirror then a steady focus ahead, into the future.

Last week, we caught up with the band to talk about their journey, Streams and Waterways and what the future holds.

13 Questions with Achers

S13: Witching Waves has always struck me as music that’s been heavily influenced by a big record collection. Are you big collectors?

Emma Wigham: “Kind of – I’m on a collecting hiatus at the moment as all our stuff has been packed away for over a year and we don’t currently have space to add to it. But collecting records was quite fundamental to my relationship with music from early on. I used to love going to car boot sales on Sunday mornings, digging out old records and hurrying home to listen to them, and I got some great 7ins from the Exeter Record Fairs back in the day (a bunch of old Kill Rock Stars 7ins stand out and loads of American ’90s indie). They’re still some of my favourites. Will is definitely the biggest record collector in the band.”  

Mark Jasper: “I’m not at all! Haha! I listen to a lot of music, and I am really lucky to work in music. So, I get to piggyback on other people’s genius and then it really inspires me and pushes me in my own band, to make the music better. I think what you’ve said is really flattering, and I do listen to music all the time. I am someone who is always looking for new things, and love going down rabbit holes.”

Will Fitzpatrick: “I definitely collect records, although I’m really more the sort of person who buys them for listening, as opposed to seeking out every colour variant for completeness’ sake, or whatever! I’ll sell records or give them away if I reach a point where I’m not listening to them at all. I guess it’s more about having a physical connection to the music than fetishising the object – it feels more ‘real’ to me when there’s something tangible. I don’t know if that’s necessarily a healthy way to view it though. My shelves are kind of creaking from the weight of records, books and comics!”

S13: What were you listening to during the recording of Streams & Waterways? 

MJ: “I actually returned to a lot of music I liked when I was a kid – Rage Against The Machine, Nirvana – and I really got into singer-songwriters like Waxahatchee, Phoebe Bridgers and Laura Stevenson.”

EW: “We listened to the SZA album Ctrl a lot.”

WF: “Loads, but I remember a lot of car journeys to the studio being soundtracked by Quasi’s Featuring ‘Birds’ and Low’s Trust, both of which probably informed some of my playing. When I came to stay with Mark and Emma during recording, I remember that we sat in their living room and listened to Red Cities by Chris Brokaw and Eleven Eleven by Come, which was a nice bonding experience and also kind of great ‘cos we ended up playing with Come at Cafe Oto last October. Playing the new songs with that band felt like completing a circle, in a way.”

S13: It sounds like a lot of life has happened since your last record. Moving up north then back down south, plus the arrival of your first child. How much did these experiences influence Streams and Waterways?

EW: “Moving to Yorkshire and being in that environment plus, growing a baby and waiting for her to arrive, is what Streams and Waterways is all about really. Some of the songs like The Valley are directly influenced by where we were living. I was really interested in the history and the landscape, and how those things intersected. On some of the other songs, I tried to be a bit more honest and less abstract than I have been before. In Yorkshire, we were surrounded by the moors and really dramatic, sometimes bleak but beautiful landscapes and that just felt really intertwined with our whole experience there. I think the music I write is always heavily influenced by the environment I’m in.”  

MJ: “They totally influenced it. Everything on the record is about that bit of time. It was a transformative and at times traumatic time. I feel so good about this record because it is so honestly about who we are and what we were dealing with at the time.”

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S13: With these experiences, it feels like your most personal record to date. I guess that’s something that isn’t factored in when you’re deep in the writing process of an album? 

MJ: “Thank you. I do really think it is our most personal record to date. I do think it was a decision on our part to push ourselves to be more honest. We’ve been writing together for a long time and our lives are obviously entangled. The honesty of the record grew from there really.”

EW: “I don’t think so, but we’ve probably become more comfortable with making things more personal and just being ourselves. Also, I think moving to a new place where we didn’t know many people and grappling with starting over (plus lockdown kicking in later on) made us face up to ourselves a little more. There were less distractions.”  

S13: Will has joined the band on a permanent basis now, too. How vital were his contributions to the record?

EW: “Absolutely vital, Will definitely slotted into the band dynamic easily and his bass parts really helped shape the songs. He initially joined us for a tour where we needed a bass player pretty last minute. He did an amazing job learning the songs at short notice and I think that experience kind of bonded us and has given us the feeling that we’ve been playing together longer than we really have.” 

MJ: “Oh yeah, absolutely vital. He brought a fresh aspect to the sound, and we really felt he had an innate understanding of the songs and what we were going for. He’s one of those people, he makes everything you do sound better. There’s just a really good chemistry between us all.”

WF: “Awww, you guys! I don’t know about how vital I was, but I definitely had some pretty big shoes to fill when it became clear that Estella had a lot on her plate with other projects. Mark and Emma are great songwriters, which definitely makes it easier for me. Being a bass player can be a relatively ego-less role compared to guitar or drums; there’s more of an element of slotting in. I have another band where I play guitar and sing, so in Witching Waves I’m more than happy to sit back a little and look for a way in musically that complements the song above all. I’m proud of the arrangements we wrote together, and I think the songs themselves are pretty great.”

S13: The Valley is a great opener. I find that it aligns well with the artwork and the imagery of the north. Was this track written early in the process?

MJ: “Fairly, yes. It certainly set a tone. It was like, we wrote that one and we knew where we were going. I suddenly understood that the record would be a big rock album. It wouldn’t be like the last one (Persistence) at all. Persistence was great but it was much more of a stripped-down, fighting sort of a record. I was really keen to have keyboards and strings on the record, all the stuff I’ve really wanted to do.”

S13: Choice You Make feels steeped in big life decisions, too. Can you tell us about this one?

EW: “Choice You Make isn’t really about anyone in particular, although I think I did have an imagined figure in mind when writing it. It’s about things not always going the way you would have expected, the difficulty in making decisions sometimes and dealing with the consequences, whatever they might be. It’s also about things not always fitting into neat categories and the blurriness of life. I wrote the lyrics for the verses and Mark wrote the chorus parts so, to me, it’s got a bit of a duality to it – looking at the same thing or person from different angles. 

“It’s probably not a coincidence that it was written during a time of some very big life choices for us.” 

MJ: “For me a lot of the record explores control. This song quite blatantly says no, this is just what it is, life isn’t full of your perfect choices, and sometimes you don’t even feel in control of how you react to things.”

S13: Vessel was the first song written for the record. There’s a real Hot Snakes vibe to it, which sounds great! Did the process become easier once you had that first song written?

MJ: “I’m sorry to say Vessel wasn’t the first song we wrote – have I said that? It seems very me to make that mistake. The first song we wrote was Everytime. We have actually had that song for a while. We have always based songs on mine and Emma’s vocals, kind of writing them first. On that song we really built the arrangement around Emma’s melody. We wrote it with Estella, and her bassline is key to the song. I remember thinking, ‘Wow, I can play guitar in a completely different way now.’

“It really opened up the band, and it was also the first song that came from a real true honest place in a completely new way. It was very exciting to listen back to that first practice demo.”

EW: “Thanks – that’s nice to hear! I really like Vessel. I felt like I hit on something with the lyrics which I was comfortable and happy with (which I haven’t always felt) so it may have helped set us up for writing the rest of the album. I’m not sure it ever felt easy to write the album though (or any other album) – we always go through ups and downs, good days and bad days. Then we come out the other side and the songs seem to link up and have a collective identity that makes the album.

WF: “If Vessel wasn’t the first one that was written, it was definitely one of the first ones that these guys showed me when we met to work on the new stuff. I remember Mark playing the riff and thinking, ‘OK, this is going to be a different record to the last one!’ I just love the tension of the verses exploding into that chorus – there was no point in overcomplicating a bassline when the riff and melody were so strong. It’s a fun one for me to play, I just get to lock in and help drive it along. Solid wrist action!”

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S13: Open A Hole is the most tender song you’ve written. Given it’s so different compared to the other songs, were you cautious about including it on the album? 

EW: “Mark wrote this song, and I did initially question whether it belonged on the album as it’s very personal and different in tone. It probably wasn’t until we recorded it that I could see where it fit in. We’ve been playing it live with just vocals and guitar, which felt pretty scary to start with. I drummed on the recording, and it felt good to be able to work on a different sort of texture for the record and have a little departure from fast and loud. 

MJ: “In a word, yes. That song is about my life when I was 19/20. The two summers I was home from uni spending time with my closest friends. The second summer we all got jobs in a factory and worked together, talking the whole day. Then we would finish at 6 a.m. and smoke and drink. Then we would fall asleep. Meanwhile I was losing my grip on reality. I had lost my religious faith I’d had my whole life and I felt I was falling into an abyss. I couldn’t fall asleep because I was so scared of the silence and it felt like death. It was this strange duality of feeling connected to my friend group and holding that identity, but I was feeling like I was slipping away. I count that year as one of my hardest and more fun years, it’s very strange.”

S13: With a song like Open A Hole, it got me thinking about bands and whether they use it as an escapism or to reveal a part of their true selves. Do you see Witching Waves as something of the latter? 

EW: “I do think it helps us feel/be more ourselves and, as cheesy as it might sound, I’m very grateful to have it. I think people who know me outside of music can sometimes be surprised about what we do and maybe find it hard to match the version of me they see with the person playing drums and singing. 

“It can be hard to feel like you’re really being yourself or just to voice certain things in the day-to-day. The ability to express different parts of yourself or feel real for a moment has got to be one of the best things about making art in any way. 

MJ: “It’s both. But yeah, more of the latter. I think for me, I create a sort of inward mental landscape with our songs and it’s a great place to explore how I feel about things. When we write something, I don’t always quite understand it but then it reveals something to me later. I think for me, making music is a key part of understanding who I am. It has really helped me over the years. Especially now that I understand that the music I make is for me, it’s definitely unlocked something.”

S13: There’s a constant struggle with DIY scenes all across the country. With the band having been around for some time now, in your opinion what have been the biggest shifts since the band first started out?

MJ: “We’ve seen a lot of venues close and that’s really sad. I’m also seeing less practice rooms and recording studios. That something I personally want to help change. Without these things, just not as many good bands will exist. Also, all the streaming platforms are taking money off listeners and diverting it to these huge companies. I know there has always been that to some extent, but little bands are struggling, and it seems like people stop doing it quicker. I always love bands that do loads of records. I like that growth. That’s something we need!”

EW: “I don’t feel super qualified to comment on this at the moment as I still feel a little disconnected since having a child and moving away from London. 

“We played and toured as much as we could for a long time with Witching Waves and saw lots of bands/ spaces/ collectives come and go. That network of people across the country is vital for everyone in DIY and forms a community which I think is so important. It shows us there are other ways of doing things, but the lack of funding in the arts, the difficulties lots of venues have faced and the subsequent closures and the general expense of everything is making it harder to sustain. Saying that, there are still people putting shows on in the best possible way and keeping things going and that’s heartening to see.”  

WF: “The scene definitely feels more fragmented than it has done for a while. There are probably lots of reasons… social media siloing us all into increasingly-niche communities, a lack of continuity and social interaction over lockdown, generally being older and witnessing tech open up generational divides at a terrifying rate… they all seem pertinent. I don’t know exactly how we stitch all of that back together, but I guess it’s incumbent on all of us who are invested in DIY communities to find a way. I guess the clue’s in the name, right?

“Last week Emma messaged me with a photo from the gig where I first met these guys, at a house show they played with my other band on Arundel Avenue in South Liverpool. That was just five years before I ended up joining Witching Waves as a dep bassist for the tour with Camp Cope. It’s now four years since they asked me to officially join the band – it really feels like we’ve become great friends in that time, and I can’t help but reflect on the fact that it’s the DIY scene that brought us together. When something presents you with friendships and life experiences like this, you can’t help but want to see it thrive.”

S13: What’s next for the band?

EW: “We are gradually working on new songs for the next album, thinking about how we want to record them, and we have a few shows in the pipeline. We’re also just figuring out how we do things since having a child and moving around so much so that’s pushing us to think a little differently about how we do things.” 

MJ: “A new album, we’ve been writing a bit and I’d like to do some recording soon. I always like to be working on something. It makes me happy.”

WF: “I’m really looking forward to the shows in the new year, and hoping we’ll have a few more added before long. Mark and Emma have sent me lots of demos – we just need to fashion them into fully-fledged songs now! Can’t wait to get started on it all.”

Streams and Waterways out now via Specialist Subject Records. Purchase from Bandcamp.