James Johnston & Steve Gullick Interview: “If it was always easy it would probably be boring”

In a world where there is a lingering question as to whether alternative culture still exists, either way, over the past four decades James Johnston and Steve Gullick’s contributions to art have been telling. Both having maintained a creative freedom over the years that goes well beyond any fame or fortune, Johnston and Gullick have left an indelible mark.

Both have embarked on fascinating journeys that began in the 1980s, and during this time each’s creative endeavours have cross-pollinated into one another’s orbit from time to time.

Firstly, there’s Johnston who caught the ear of many via the unhinged, rambling swamp rock of Gallon Drunk, which formed in London in 1988. Johnston also had a brief stint as a touring member of Nick Cave & The Bad Seeds in 1994, and since then he has been involved in a plethora of projects, including the sleepy roadhouse blues of …Bender – the three-piece act formed in the early noughties alongside Gullick and Geraldine Swayne.

In addition to being an acclaimed painter, Johnston also went on to release his excellent solo LP, The Starless Room in 2016 via Clouds Hill.

Meanwhile, Gullick has had his own decorated career. Better known for his photography and video production, Gullick has worked with the greats, including everyone from PJ Harvey, Bjork and Neil Young to Mark E. Smith, Kurt Cobain and Elliot Smith. Musically, following …Bender’s 2005 self-titled third release, Gullick went on to form Tenebrous Liar – the project that has included the likes of Ed Harcourt and Duke Garwood.

From Johnston’s paintings that possess the kind of spirit-like figures that haunt dreams, to Gullick’s striking photography, over the years there’s an uninhibited darkness that overlaps both of their works, making their latest musical collaboration one that seemed destined to occur.

On their debut 2021 debut release, We Travel Time, the pair delivered a stirring series of slow-motion folk designed for lonely nights and drowned sorrows. Occupying a similar vein to the work of the late Mark Lanegan and fellow God Unknown label mate Garwood, Johnston and Gullick illuminated a bourgeoning sense of locality unlike any other project in this space.

Their second offering, Everybody’s Sunset, arrived a year later last November. A more strings heavy approach with the odd electric bolt emerging through the storm clouds, Everybody’s Sunset is a release that maintains a gruelling emotional weight. Listening to both albums in sequence demonstrates the contrast, and in many ways, this is the best way to listen, for it underlines the subtle majesty Johnston and Gullick have captured during both releases.

As Johnston gears up for an extensive tour with PJ Harvey on the back of her latest LP, I Inside the Old Year Dying – an album which Gullick provided portrait photography and created the video for A Child’s Question, August alongside Harvey – both were kind enough to answer some questions about their creative processes, the current state of music, and Everybody’s Sunset.

PJ Harvey: I Inside the Old Year Dying

Sun 13: You’ve known each other for a long time now, and while you’ve played in bands together in the past, did you always feel like the two of you would collaborate directly?

James Johnston: “We’ve known each other for over 30 years now, and quite early on we had plans to do some kind of music together. When we eventually did, it turned into the band …Bender. Having all that history makes it really easy to write and record together, we really know how each other work and don’t get offended by differing taste, or embarrassed by trying something that turns out to be awful. It makes it a lot easier to take chances.”

Steve Gullick: “I have put some truly awful sounds James’ way… sorry James! …Bender was initially me and a 4 track cassette recorder, I think James was pretty desperate to be in …Bender… he happily joined me for the first live performance, then we started recording improvisations together, then it developed into a full on band.

“I recall before making any music together, James and I discussing a shared love for the sound of vacuum cleaners and other such environmental sounds… I adored Gallon Drunk, first time I saw them I was fully immersed in that North West American long-haired scene… I thought GD were like Mudhoney with quiffs… Absolutely loved them!

“What we do now, is just the continuation of a long friendship and enjoyment of creating together… the music we make could go anywhere, though as ageing gents, I can’t imagine it’ll speed up much in tempo.”

S13: Can you tell us about the process behind Everybody’s Sunset?

JJ: “One of us tends to start a track, usually with some kind of improv’ that gets worked on by us both, often losing the original idea altogether and going with later ideas as it turns into something different. It was quite unhurried, and recorded when the ideas came rather than in a session.”

SG: “Yes, sometimes the song bore very little resemblance to the idea that kicked it off… stripping things away can be more creative and interesting than pursuing an idea… changing the sound of elements altogether via effects pedals and general messing… it’s just fun and inspiring.”

Michael Plater Interview: “Writing songs is about turning the conscious mind off”

S13: I find it a slight departure from We Travel Time, and certainly more orchestral in feeling. Was that a conscious decision, or did it just work out that way?

JJ: “Just worked out that way. For my part it was probably down to recording a lot of violin as starting points for ideas. It’s easy to record, nothing to plug in, and you can get something down quick, plus it’s good to get away from the guitar as I always end up doing the same kind of thing. In the same way Steve started a lot of ideas on the piano this time, as he’s got an upright at home. Both leave lots of space for other things.”

SG: “For me, there was an element of unfinished business with We Travel Time, I was always desperate for the song When I’m Down to be heard, the bones of the recording of that song date from 2005/6/7? we used to perform it live with …Bender, for my part, other elements of that album were already floating around. Everybody’s Sunset is definitely more of what we are / where we are now!”

S13: You’ve both always made records that are so far removed from one another, and while perhaps not sonically, I think Everybody’s Sunset really embodies that spirit of your work from over the years. Is this something you thought out?

JJ: “Absolutely nothing about the record was thought out apart from the cover and order of the tracks. You have to go with what you’re into at the time otherwise it wouldn’t be exciting to do. That said, there are loads of echoes of things in there. I can certainly hear From the Heart of Town in places on the new album.”

SG: “James and I like a lot of the same music – James is an accomplished musician, I’m a novice… I suspect he’s drawn to the random chaos I can bring… I struggle to play the same thing twice, I probably go places that a proper musician wouldn’t… Nothing was or is ever pre-planned within the music we make – we throw ideas at each other, some stick, some are politely overlooked.”

S13: The title track is such a lovely way to end the record, too. Do you remember writing that song, and did you have a feeling it would finish the album after you’d written it?

JJ: “The final epic synth part was added onto the last song by Steve, then I put some strings on it. The minute I heard it, it was obviously the end of the record, I’m sure Steve felt the same too. A totally unexpected trip to take you off somewhere else entirely.”

SG: “Medieval Death Song started this record – I was awed by what James sent me, from that point to Everybody’s Sunset is a bit of a blur to be honest – I do remember being utterly bowled over by the string part’s James added to the synth… I do love that song, it’s the last thing we completed and seemed an obvious point to end the album.”

S13: The video for Fear of Everything is so removed from how I felt about this song. Was creating that juxtaposition something that you were going for when mapping out the ideas for the video?

SG: “The videos are as loose as the music, it’s all a nonspecific flow… I view the visuals and the music as being inseparable, they’re created in the same way… I like that you feel there’s a juxtaposition there, it means we get different things from the same piece of music.”

S13: Both albums have come out via God Unknown, and more recently I know Steve, you did the photography for Jason’s band, JAAW. Had you known much of Jason prior to signing with the label?

SG: “I introduced James to Jason… having known Jason for a number of years and loving much of the music he’s made and released, I really hoped he’d be interested in working with us – it was a thrill when he said he liked it… any label talk ended there… a no brainer, as organic as the music itself!”

S13: With James being a painter and Steve a video producer/ photographer, how much has other art forms informed your ideas when making music?

JJ: “Painting has definitely influenced the music, and vice versa. There’s a freedom to painting that helped shake up things for me and get out of a rut with music ideas. Just go for it and ignore what you think you are as a musician as far as genre goes, just make something, and worry about what it is later.”

SG: “It’s all inseparable with us… our collaborations will take many shapes and sounds. It’s kind of ironic that as a principally visual artist, I’ve been involved in making the soundtrack music first.”

S13: Having asked to Mick Turner about this, he said that his favourite thing to do when he starts his day is deciding what he is going to make. Being involved in various artforms, do you feel this way, too?

JJ: “I love walking into the painting studio with no idea at all what’s going to happen and just starting.”

SG: “Which is exactly what happens with the music (and also much of my photography) … see what happens… there’s nothing more thrilling when you love the result! – I love Mick Turner’s work, a totally inspiring artist!”

S13: Do your creative processes differ from one artform to another?

JJ: “I’m able to be a lot more instinctive with painting as there’s no recording involved to slow things down. It’s easier to lose yourself in it as you don’t stop for hours. But with both, I often just throw something down, then that’s when the planning process starts.”

SG: “I like to improvise in everything I do… I’ll throw obstacles into my photography work… but analogue photography is magic anyway… every film / session has a ‘phew’ moment when you see it actually came out… I’ve got into shooting Super8 film… I derive little pleasure from the cold certainty digital has to offer.”

S13: Having been in so many projects over the years, have your processes changed. Are there new challenges or has become easier?

JJ: “I can hardly remember how I used to write things, mostly mumbled drunk into a Dictaphone.

“As time goes on, I think you work more and more for yourself, and that can both be easier, and also more challenging as there are no familiar parameters or people to filter ideas through. If it was always easy it would probably be boring. At least you get to know what you don’t like, and what you don’t like to do, what to avoid.”

SG: “I think James and I trust each other enough and are honest with each other enough to allow us the freedom to try stuff and for it to fail – and to filter each other and for us to mutually present something we love. If a process becomes predictable or boring, it’s probably time to move on… a lack of commercial / critics success is a very freeing thing!”

S13: You’ve both been involved in art for so long now. Did you ever forecast that art would being devalued so much in such a short space of time (i.e., streaming overshadowing physical product)?

JJ: “It’s still music at least. I never really made any money from Gallon Drunk anyway apart from gigs, so it doesn’t really make any difference. That’s another part of painting I really love, posting off a canvas, someone getting the actual thing directly from me.”

SG: “The music business has failed. But at least nobody produces shit album filler tracks anymore. Artists are driven, they have to make their mark – have to make things that people can hold, feel, see, hear, feel.”

S13: I know you’ve both been involved with PJ Harvey’s new record. What’s next for you both?

JJ: “I’m not on the new album, but I’m in the band. Rehearsals start down in Dorset in a week’s time, so that’s taking over everything. It’s exciting to be playing with Polly again, the way she approaches music is hugely inspiring.” 

SG: “It’s been hugely inspiring working with Polly over the last couple of years, she’s a truly uncompromising and fearless artist.

“James and I are planning a collaborative exhibition and accompanying music for next year. Stevie Chick and I just released Loose Lips Sink Ships Seven, a book comprising of features we put together over a ten-year period. I’m working on new music with Tenebrous Liar… photo stuff – video stuff… been doing a lot with Drift, a wonderful new God Unknown artist… played some guitar with Adulkt Life… [and] walking about with my dog, Stan.”

Everybody’s Sunset is out now via God Unknown. Purchase from Bandcamp.